At Odds with Omaha...

Over the past several weeks i've started playing Omaha, i'm already a big fan but there are some holes in my understanding of some of the basics. The main issue is hand odds.
In a full ten handed game, 40 cards are dealt to players, 1 burn and 3 for the flop, leaves 8 cards in the deck. How then do I calculate my turn and river hand odds for a 20 outer?

2 hole cards 3 community cards for the peepz that will react on my 1st post..

Errr.....thanks for your reply.
From your response, it seems you are saying that the probability of hitting a specified number of outs is unaffected by the number of cards in the deck...which doesn't fit with my understanding of probabilty!
/chuckles...and returns to google for more reading.

gladdened, 13/10/2009

It doesnt affect at al. Think of it this way: Normally the deck in holdem at the end of a hand F/T/R on a full ring + 3 burn cards leave 24 cards that arent used. These 24 dead + 3 burnt cards are never ever gonna influence probability Because they fysicly dont exist.

Thus odds and outs stay the same regardless.

please correct me if im wrong, but it doesnt make sense if there are the same number of outs but less cards in the deck for the odds of hitting the outs to remain constant.
Lets compare 2 flush draws 1 in omaha and 1 in holdem

in hold em if you are holding 4 cards to a flush and want to find out what the percentage of hitting a flush on the turn or river it is

(9/47 +9/46) *100= 38.7%
but in the same situation in omaha you know 2 more cards which are not your outs, so

(9/45+9/44)*100=40.5%

so you are slightly more likely to hit a flush draw in omaha than in holdem, i think.

It's a false logic many players use (no offense). People tend to think that in order to have outs, they need to be in the deck.

The cards in other players' hands or in the muck are of the same value as the ones on the bottom of the deck. After all, they're not being used. All that's relevant to your odds of winning are the cards that are on top of the deck. The rest of the deck you can put in the muck, in your pants or frisbee them around the room, they're not ever going to be of any relevance.

In the beginning of the game the deck is shuffled and the cards remain in the position they're in when the shuffling ends. Suppose 51 cards are dealt and 1 is left. Then what is relevant to you are the odds of one of your outs being in that position. Assuming the deck was shuffled perfectly, every card has a 1/52 chance of being in any given position in the deck. Remember, the cards' positions are fixed after the shuffle.

So if you have a flush draw (9 outs) and there's 1 card left, there's a 9/52 chance that one of your outs ended up there in the beginning of the hand. If one of them was in that position, then it doesn't matter what happened to the other cards, and the other way around.

When you speak of things like 'true odds', you're being results oriented. It doesn't matter to us whether or not someone holds our outs, what matters to us is the likelyhood of them NOT holding our outs. You don't know if the cat is dead until you open the box.