I always loose hands like this, how can I improve?

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MichiMa
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Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:22
13 (who?)
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#1
MichiMa 58 posts Mackerel

Posted: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:22 by MichiMa

Table #20502830 - Golden Dragon
Starting Hand #986473003
Start time of hand: 30 Sep 2009 13:06:55
Last Hand #986471188
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: RING
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $0.05/$0.10
Button is at seat 6
Seat 1: kiki75011 - $6.78
Seat 2: leefuller - $4.18
Seat 3: BagTrax - $3.25
Seat 4: Jay1023 - $6.20
Seat 5: derekanthony - $4.65
Seat 6: Cotjee1987 - $3.75
Seat 7: FedePede - $9.95
Seat 8: elzozo - $6.60
Seat 9: ramozak - $4.15
Seat 10: MichiMa - $7.25
Moving Button to seat 7
elzozo posts small blind ($0.05)
ramozak posts big blind ($0.10)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing to MichiMa
MichiMa calls $0.10
kiki75011 calls $0.10
leefuller calls $0.10
BagTrax folds
Jay1023 calls $0.10
derekanthony folds
Cotjee1987 raises to $0.40
FedePede raises to $0.70
elzozo folds
ramozak folds
MichiMa raises to $1
kiki75011 calls $1
leefuller folds
Jay1023 calls $1
Cotjee1987 calls $1
FedePede calls $1
Dealing Flop
MichiMa bets $2
kiki75011 folds
Jay1023 folds
Cotjee1987 calls $2
FedePede calls $2
Dealing Turn
MichiMa checks
Cotjee1987 checks
FedePede bets $0.80
MichiMa calls $0.80
Cotjee1987 calls $0.75 (all-in)
Dealing River
MichiMa checks
FedePede has requested more time
FedePede is using the time bank
FedePede has 14 seconds remaining in the time bank
FedePede bets $0.80
MichiMa calls $0.80
Taking Rake of $1.52 from pot 1
FedePede shows
FedePede has Two Pairs: Aces, 10s
MichiMa shows
MichiMa has Two Pairs: Kings, 2s
FedePede wins $1.70 from side pot #1 with: Two Pairs: Aces, 10s
Cotjee1987 mucks
FedePede wins $11.98 with: Two Pairs: Aces, 10s
Seat 1: kiki75011 - $5.78
Seat 2: leefuller - $4.08
Seat 3: BagTrax - $3.25
Seat 4: Jay1023 - $5.20
Seat 5: derekanthony - $4.65
Seat 6: Cotjee1987 - $0
Seat 7: FedePede - $19.03
Seat 8: elzozo - $6.55
Seat 9: ramozak - $4.05
Seat 10: MichiMa - $2.65
MichiMa: ...
End Of Hand #986473003

I was pretty pissed after this hand and firstly insulted Fede, but apologized later.

Its not the only critical hands I lost, despite I was favourite before.

How can I improve?
#2
Kakabuku 2639 posts Blue Marlin

Posted: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:38 by Kakabuku

My opinion:
- under the gun with 10 people you NEVER slowplay a hand like KK! Just put in a healthy raise of at least 3BB.
- 3 people called behind you, there was a raise and a re-raise; at least 1 of them has an A and there might be a random pair out there. A raise is in order but to get rid of your competitors (you wouldn't mind to pick up the pot right here!) a modest 30ct raise makes the pot $2,55 and invites others to call in stead of chasing them away. This is exactly what happens, 1 folds and 3 people call. You don't want to play KK vs 4 people over a substantial pot of now $5,25...
- the flop doesn't show an A (pheww) and gives you again an opportunity to chase everybody away; it's not likely that someone holds a 2 and you can only pray that there is no TT still out there... A $2 bet will not do the trick: it makes the pot $7,25 and offers the others excellent odds to stay in this hand (e.g. if your holding AT!!!)... Since you only have $6,25 behind an all-in is the only bet that makes sense to me.
- you now still have 2 others in the pot ($11,25) and the A shows on the turn with only $4,25 behind. I would be done with the hand: check-fold after a substantial raise... Since the raise is only $0,80 (making the pot $12,05) your call is 'OK'.
- A $13,60 pot and a blank on the river... You can still beat hands like JJ, QQ and with these pot odds ($14,40 after his raise) a call is OK but the damage is probably done....

#3

Posted: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:15 by Robbieweeza

Dealing to MichiMa
MichiMa calls $0.10

I don't like the flat call, but it's not a bad play utg in 10-seaters.

kiki75011 calls $0.10
leefuller calls $0.10
BagTrax folds
Jay1023 calls $0.10
derekanthony folds
Cotjee1987 raises to $0.40
FedePede raises to $0.70
elzozo folds
ramozak folds
MichiMa raises to $1

Raise much much more. 3 limpers, a raise and a reraise, you should be 4-betting crazy here. Make it like 2.50 or something

kiki75011 calls $1
leefuller folds
Jay1023 calls $1
Cotjee1987 calls $1
FedePede calls $1
Dealing Flop
MichiMa bets $2

Bet more. With all these people in the pot I'd just chuck it all in here, there's no point in trying to squeeze value here.

kiki75011 folds
Jay1023 folds
Cotjee1987 calls $2
FedePede calls $2
Dealing Turn
MichiMa checks

Either you decide to checkfold to a bet or you bet here. By checking you're saying the A has you beat.

Cotjee1987 checks
FedePede bets $0.80
MichiMa calls $0.80

This is a really stupid bet by Fede as you're actually getting close to odds to draw for your 2-outer. Still, this is about the worst way to play this turn.

Bottom line: raise more preflop. KK is only a monster when there hasn't been a flop yet, you want to get as much of your stack in pre as possible, and preferably not get more than 1 or 2 callers for a flop.
#4
MichiMa 58 posts Mackerel

Posted: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:32 by MichiMa

Right, thanks!

Yeah, I may have to exercise betting a little more...
Often I can't value my hand correctly and therefore do a bet mostly by intuition.

Also I'm still in that situation, that I can't fold a hand, who would beat the board (e.g. Ace-pair) and I therefor run into many traps.

Hope, I learned some more lessons today, especially how to bet. Thanks guys.
#5

Posted: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:33 by MeneGeneOkerland

Agree with everything Robbie said everything you did in the hand is just looking for trouble so would def try and follow his advice.

Remember monsters pre AA and KK don't fair so well in multi-way pots

Your other problem in this hand is the guy with A 10 is probably coming with you as he has 2pr with top kicker on the flop (not many fold this at NL10) then hits a better 2pr on turn.
#6
Chivalrousgent 6389 posts Bull Shark Moderator

Posted: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:01 by Chivalrousgent

"I always loose hands like this, how can I improve?"

Bet Bigger.

The end ...
#7
MichiMa 58 posts Mackerel

Posted: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:25 by MichiMa

Allright, I will train this.

Allow me to hijack this thread for another topic, cus I don't want to create too many.

So, this evening I am loosing 20$.

Mostly I have very good hands like triple or top pair top kicker and I also raise appropriate, but many call and I get the bad luck and a board of 3 colours.

Due to my bluff paranoia I mostly call the All-In. How can I cure myself from this? sad

I actually marked him and was assuming, that he only bets big, if he got the nuts, but there endless players out there and I don't have notes on at least 95% of all those players. :/
#8

Posted: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:08 by jamesbeckton

bet bigger. 4bet preflop to 2.5 then shove flop,.
#9
ZEUSUEZ 1177 posts Swordfish

Posted: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:56 by ZEUSUEZ

#10

Posted: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:46 by ezoteric

Edited: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:46 by ezoteric

@Michima

Limping with KK utg is OK, but in the hope of getting raised then SHOVE

If not u have to fold when someone hevy bet the A, with that many callers someone have a A

D. Brunson said: I don't like AA or KK. With it u win little or loose big ! wink
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