$2/4 hand?

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 16:13 by ScottyStarburst

checking and betting are both fine I think, almost certainly never calling the river tho, i kinda prefer betting like 140 on the river if im going to bet tho, just to turn it into looking more like a 3 barrel bluff, but thats just me

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 16:40 by mike456111

I don't agree with scotty for the 140 on river. I really like your line on that board and id like to see a fold on the river.
I believe is range really looks like 75s 45s or Q5s (like 85% of the time) or a 2 pairs hand that he is turning into a bluff MAIBE Qx that he turned into a bluff but i really don't think so.

great hand for posting

best of luck to ya tigerwing

Mike456111

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 16:50 by TheSqueeze

I think its a 56 or 57 and a fold and u played it perfect Tigerwing just seems unlucky.

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 17:09 by IneedUrChips

I dont rly like that riverbet too much. Board is wet as Hiltion's pussy, so 3barreling isnt really efficient - only when u want to turn your own hand in to a bluff.

But thats exactly what Zlantan did here, so basicly a check/call wud been better. Might even snapcall river in the line youve taken too.

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 18:25 by japete

tough spot but im in chips's page.

check/call river

cheers

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 19:54 by jjoel87

Yeh maybe a check call would have been the cheaper way for showdown, i cannot rly see this being a bluff unless he put you on a strong Q. U made a thin bet at the river for which seems like a stopper bet rather than for value, maybe hes read this and threw a bluff in to robb the pot.

either way its a very hard call, but im saying 56, for him to be on a decent Q or 2 pair he should have reraised on one of the streets...

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 20:16 by Robbieweeza

Set of crabs, obviously.

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 20:30 by tigerwing

Yeah..it's so easy when you write the hand down and look at it properly. The problem is when you got 3 other tables open and only 30 secs to work it all out.

He had 55 btw

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 20:40 by satfat

meh, i think hes more likely turning a Qx hand(or airball planning a move on scary cards) into a bluff realising hes not good. from the few hands ive seen zlat play/posted this is a bluff v often imo. i call

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 21:01 by IneedUrChips

So u got PRO-Fronked... ul!

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 21:31 by satfat

not to mention u put in nearly half ur stack already. i just dont think zlat is good enough to recognise u shud be commited to not bluff

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 23:29 by zlatan35

i call one time a continuation bet basic because its a nice flop ..
after i have a nice turn for a straigh or a 5 ..
lucky river

after i think that i cant bluff after 3 barrels ... When you bet again river i think that you have QQ

river check call is the best solution

UL tiger

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Posted: 02-Nov-2009 23:55 by satfat

^^ no sale

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Posted: 03-Nov-2009 01:47 by Vondur

Maybe I've gone completely crazy or this is like a parallell reversed opposite universe where check-call actually is the best play and EVERYONE in this thread is correct. Someone please... have I really gone crazy or is this thread just the perfect storm of horrible replies?

If you check on this river Zlatan basically checks behind everything you beat and bets everything that beats you. You induce no bluffs cuz there is no hand he could get to the river with that would have a reason to bluff.

And... If he has the straight it's gonna cost you the one big riverbet no matter if you check-call it or bet-fold it yourself.

Betting is also far superior for all kinds of image/metagame/etc-factors you can think of.

The oooonly thing worse with betting is the times when zlatan is at the very bottom of his range and decides to turn it into a bluff and shove river and I would guess this is superrare.

Hand is played good but I'd suggest betting a bit bigger on the river.

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Posted: 03-Nov-2009 01:54 by Vondur

and... If villain is so weak that he will neither bluff/bet with worse OR call with worse if you bet. Then you checkfold this river and start bluffing him relentlessly if you're not doing it already.

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Posted: 03-Nov-2009 11:02 by ScottyStarburst

I knew someone had to be thinking the same lines as me vondur lol, I was reading this check calling and thinking wtf.

i said to bet more for a few reasons, by betting 90 you kinda turn your hand face up, your strong and looking for value but your range is very rarely the straight here, if you bet more on the river, your range looks more skewed towards complete air or the straight (which is unlikely), so imo your less likely to get bluff raised, but more likely to get called by bluff catchers, weak Qx, maybe tt 99 88 e.t.c

thats just how id play it, but i use 4 cards usually so what do i know gl tiger

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Posted: 03-Nov-2009 18:08 by TheSqueeze

Errm see my post above.... i really dont think a much bigger bet is needed... he knows with the 3 barrel that he has a hand and it makes the shove by Zlatan an easy fold whilst prolly losing the minimum.

But yeh pretty much agree with Vondur.

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Posted: 03-Nov-2009 23:47 by ScottyStarburst

I think the bigger bet is needed as he doesnt want to get bluff raised, but he wants to get called by worse, by betting 90 I think most competent players pick up a ton of strength in the 3 barrel, and can put his range as very strong but almsot never the straight, and this makes bluff raising even easier knowing tigerwing is competent enough to fold almost his whole range here.
betting 140, most players would be thinking well he wouldnt bet almost the pot with a queen, or set or an overpair because of the board, and he doesnt show up with the straight here that often, so his more likely to get called than raised, which is where we get our value, and if you do get raised, then you can be pretty sure zlat has the nuts or basic nuts, as raising as a bluff makes less sense, because his hand must have some showdown value due to calling first 2 streets.

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Posted: 04-Nov-2009 12:13 by satfat

so noone calls then? guess im just a donk. but if reversed im maklin this play a lot with any Q or 7xspade hands which i may get to the river with.

i mean hes basically narowed his whole range down to a 5 or not. what cud he have besides 56 with a 5? as its blinds i guess some 75 type hands too but so often its just a good card to bluff at in a spot where tigers shown enough strength tht a smaller raise is unlikely to get the job done