live tournament hands - strategy & discussions

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Posted: 23-Oct-2009 13:59 by kingkai84

hand #1

WPT Marrakech, blinds 25-50, startstack 20000, played like 17min

its early on and i havent got a real feel about all the players styles yet. and we all are sitting with about 400BB.

position UTG, hand AdJd

preflop:
pretty shitty position, but i still have good hand. way to good to just fold. so i have 2 choices. limp or raise.

limp:
positive: by limping i keep the pot smaller and without position and with 400bb thats my strategy early on in every live tournament i play. play small pots preflop out of pos.

negative: i invite people to get in cheaply for a family pot.

raise:
positive: i can get people to fold hands they would normally limp in with. but when the blinds are so small i see a lot of people call raises with hands that they would call a limp. so it actually doesnt matter that much.

negative: building up a bigger pot preflop out of position.

with all that in mind i personally find the limp as a better play than the raise in this situation. i pretty much play this AJs as any AXs in this spot.


action: got call from the UTG+1, button and blinds.

flop: AQJ rainbow. a pretty sweet flop for me given i only limped my hand.

250 in the pot and i bet out 200.

i do this to protect my hand and for value. i feel i have the best hand and dont want anyone to draw cheaply to a straight.

UTG+1 raises to 600 the rest fold.

hmmm. what does that mean? i never have him on a set here. the hands i thought he might have was: KT, AQ, AJ, QJ, AT, Ax

i thought that guy would raise preflop with AQ, so that was the least possible of them in my mind. i thought KT was the most possible after that AJ, QJ and AT in no particular order.

my hand still have potential and could be the best so i decide to call. i never raise just in case he has the KT and reraises me one more time. then i pretty much raised my self out off the hand and had to fold even though i could get paid off if i hit my boat.

turn A. sweeet. check or bet? i guess i didnt think that one through so it went check check. a bet of 800 might be the best choice here. why?

if he had KT i still think he pays off 800 on the turn and maybe 1200 on a blank river. if he have AT, Ax he also might pay off. QJ would fold, and if he had AJ he might raise and then i would call, and check call the river (for safety to an AQ)

maybe a small mistake checking the turn there....??

river blank: i bet out 1200 and he calls and mucks when he sees my hand. i dont know for sure what he had, but thinks KT or AT.

so the question is? is there any way i could get more out of this hand?? and how?

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Posted: 23-Oct-2009 14:29 by discomonkey

as you know im nopt much of a lilmper in any stage of the tournament, but i dont mind a limp especialy being so deep

the flop i would lead out as you did, mayeb slightly less but im being picky here, lol

on the turn, were you going for a check raise or a check call then value town the river........ most of the time in these hands you ahve a plan going in , im just curious as to what your was, because yuo said you were a little nervy on the flop to get raised by the utg +1 guy which is obv showing strength, so what was your plan from what u reember going into the turn and after it when the ace binks ??

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Posted: 23-Oct-2009 14:44 by kingkai84

my plan was to check call the turn and then make a strange BIG (almost pot) bet on a blank river.

i dont think that guy would pay off a check raise on the turn unless he has a full house himself.

as i said earlier. i didn't think that one through. i just checked before making the entire thought process.

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Posted: 23-Oct-2009 15:08 by discomonkey

i kinda like ur line in terms of getting the max out of hands like kq and jq, it kinda depends on your read on the player tho, if u think he has kt a lot then i might lead the turn and the river.........

its a prety awkward spot(in a good way obv) in that its tough to decide which is the right line at the time, if he calls the river and flip jq u play it great but if he flip kt you missed value, interesting spot but i think i check the turn a lot there also, but sometimes i bet......... seeing the hand i full im still not sure what i do tbh lol

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Posted: 23-Oct-2009 16:36 by PKR_Danski

N1 boys. Keep em comin...

(Obv no time to read this myself til the weekend )

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Posted: 24-Oct-2009 05:17 by golfpro699

i prob auto raise pre with such a strong hand and also so deep might as well make the pot bigger imo.

on turn u dont like leading? only one hand beats u and thats assuming he actually overlimped aq here so id discount further. i want this pot to be big so id like a turn lead. also if he has kt he always call down

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Posted: 24-Oct-2009 10:23 by kingkai84

pre: just my style to limp this utg early on. understand that others (most players) like to raise.

turn: as i said in the first pot. i think i rushed my action. i should take more time before deciding and then lead out on turn. i also think that is the best play.

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Posted: 24-Oct-2009 16:00 by james666

I think what Andy is trying to say here Kai, is that..... your a fish ;-) tehe... just kidding...

I am with andy, although your limping pre keeps the pot small, you also want to be pot building with any hand that can take down a huge pot... any nut flush draing hand, suited connectors, mid PP's, etc...

When you hit a flop vs someone else in the pot, you can use your skil to either keep the pot small on the flop and fold if you think your beat, but if you think your ahead and dominating, then why would you want the pot to be 250 (5 players limping 50) rather than 600 (with 3 other players calling your 150 raise)... when you do hit a lovely flop, you are trying to get maximum value out of a pot that is less than half the size it wouldbe if you had raised... lmiiting your overall pot size by the river to half of what it could be...

Limping a lot in early stages, just tells other decent players at the table that you are weak, and that they can bully you off hands... if you start off appearing aggressive, then other players will be less likely to try and take advantage of your passiveness later on in the tournament, when blinds are a lot bigger (they will not try to make as many moves on you as they would if your a nitt)....

Any way thats my 2 cents, and now i will go back to watching some musical on TV! lol

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Posted: 24-Oct-2009 18:51 by kingkai84

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hmm. havent really thought to much about your preflop thoughts in early stages. about building pots preflop with hands that have big potential to win huge pots. something i bring to mind in next tournaments.... maybe why i never have a big stack early, and you often do=)

about me taking that passive route early on and the image i get. i like having that image, so when i change gears midway through day1 i take a lot of pots by 3betting pre especially to late pos raises to my bb. this image is actually intentional and a part of my strategy.

thanks for the feedback all=)

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Posted: 24-Oct-2009 21:15 by golfpro699

another thought is that i thjink limping AJs here should be an adjustment to your table and its composition, rather than something you do as 'style', mainly because of what james said about having bigger pots with less people.

i would disagree with james about wanting to look aggro for later in the tournament, because as it transitions from 'no ante' to 'ante', good players realise that its almost a completely different stage so everything is played differently.
also in tournaments, by the time 'later on' comes you've p[robably moved tables already.

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Posted: 30-Oct-2009 12:29 by goldpanda

"Crowded elevator smell different to midget."