Does he bluff this spot often enough?

By Chivalrousgent

21 posts 01 Nov 2009 17:18

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Can I justify the call? Or am I just a spewtard donkey who gifts his chips away because he thinks no-one is stupid enough to chase a naked ten high flush draw for a pot-sized turn bet?


Table #21495095 - Tournament #13076393 Table #12
Starting Hand #1030410870
Start time of hand: 01 Nov 2009 17:10:17
Last Hand #1030409045
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $10/$20
Button is at seat 3
Seat 1: thesaintsback - $2,970
Seat 3: LadyMcBet - $2,890
Seat 4: megazord - $2,970
Seat 5: Chivalrousgent - $5,890
Seat 6: Thomasinder - $3,000
Seat 7: Walshieblue - $3,210
Seat 8: gier1 - $3,000
Seat 9: Jamaicandream - $3,070
Seat 10: vanthecard - $3,000
Moving Button to seat 4
Chivalrousgent posts small blind ($10)
Thomasinder posts big blind ($20)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [5s Js] to Chivalrousgent
Taxman1982: spot
Walshieblue folds
Taxman1982: come on msn
gier1 has requested more time
gier1 calls $20
Jamaicandream folds
vanthecard folds
AcesElky brings $2,970 to table 21495095
AcesElky has joined from Tournament Table #4
thesaintsback folds
LadyMcBet folds
megazord folds
Chivalrousgent calls $20
Thomasinder checks
Taxman1982: spot?
Dealing Flop [5d 2c Jc]
Chivalrousgent bets $40
Thomasinder calls $40
gier1 calls $40
Dealing Turn [2h]
Chivalrousgent bets $150
Thomasinder folds
gier1 calls $150
Dealing River [4c]
Chivalrousgent: hey phil Wink
Chivalrousgent bets $330
Taxman1982: hey
Taxman1982: Happy
Walshieblue: hang on pativeys in this - why are we bothering?
gier1 raises to $1,650
Taxman1982: lol walshie
Chivalrousgent: fuck my life really?
Chivalrousgent: fuck it if you've got it you've got it
Chivalrousgent calls $1,650
Taxman1982: he was on my table
gier1 shows [Tc 9c]
gier1 has Flush, Jack high
Chivalrousgent mucks
Taxman1982: i just got moved
gier1 wins $3,780 with: Flush, Jack high
Seat 1: thesaintsback - $2,970
Seat 2: AcesElky - $2,970
Seat 3: LadyMcBet - $2,890
Seat 4: megazord - $2,970
Seat 5: Chivalrousgent - $4,030
Seat 6: Thomasinder - $2,940
Seat 7: Walshieblue - $3,210
Seat 8: gier1 - $4,920
Seat 9: Jamaicandream - $3,070
Seat 10: vanthecard - $3,000
Chivalrousgent: course he fucking does
End Of Hand #1030410870

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jimmyfizzels

642 posts

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hang on pativeys in this - why are we bothering?

lol classic

arron77

1198 posts

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Check call river.

Could of had a 2

callmebabe

114 posts
Team PKR Pro

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Yeah Chiv its a check-call river for me.

discomonkey

3103 posts
Team PKR Pro

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im always cehck calling the river here depending on bet size, or bet folding, he just isnt bluffing often enough here, no draws havent got there and he flats all 1 pair/2 pair hands tbh.

tbh mate its not even close, b/f or c/c

satfat

1263 posts

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y do u keepposting hands u know u made big mistakes on chiv??? like theres any value in advertising here.....

but if its genuine i checkfold river. theres nothign he cud be bluffing here and V V few PKR noobsticks play passive on flop then turn and bet their J on river

whiskymac

5533 posts

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Shouldn't this be in the metagame section /lmao

FinnBinn

1855 posts

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Interesting.. very very interesting.. what team u on tomorrow chiv? Wink

Chivalrousgent

5679 posts
Player Moderator

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" like theres any value in advertising here....."

FFS that's the only reason I post hands on this forum Sad

mockjock

1150 posts

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In future keep creating an image to smaller buy in tournaments Wink

TheSqueeze

3307 posts

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i just dont like ur bet sizing on flop and turn but he prolly still calls anyway

Dunbar

1978 posts

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gier is a huge abc nit. If he raises, he has it.

Chivalrousgent

5679 posts
Player Moderator

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Ok to actually take this thread seriously again for a moment ... I was only semi-kidding about advertising. It's true that I only post my fruity or mistake-ridden hands (or on a rare occasion one where there's genuine debate to be had), but obviously that's kinda the point in posting them, Satty - to double-check whether I've been as big of an ass as I feel at the time, or whether the play is permissible. If it makes people think that they are reflective of my standard method of play, happy days.

Whilst I +1 the check-call strategy in many respects, I genuinely thought to be v-betting some naff jack, given that he has to get huuuuugely paid on river to justify implied odds for the call, so I'm assuming that no-one is retarded enough to call an almost pot-size turn bet for flush outs (and the chance of his 9T being live for pair draws is effectively nil unless I'm taking some bullshit line with a 5 here).

So, obviously if I'm thinking that, a bet-fold is probably the better line to be taking assuming his call-call range excludes a FD, but check-call if I figure it might.

Problem is that I'm a bloody retard whose biggest leak is his pointless curiosity, and I seem to think it's worth hero-calling in the hope that he's making some really poorly-conceived bluff (I daresay it happens, but frankly not often enough to justify the ~2:1 odds call here).

Re. the bet-sizing Squeezy - what do you dislike about it? I'm blatantly pwning on the turn and looking to get poor calls from Jx (if he's got a 2, c'est la vie). You want me to be betting more or less?

As for the flop bet - in a perfect world I might bet pot there but then that's completely inconsistent with my usual flop-lead bet-sizing so I avoided the temptation.

Or am I being retarded and you think I should be downsizing my bets???

Anyways, there we go, another cautionary tale from Chiv.

The moral of the story this week kids is:

Curiosity is a needlessly expensive habit - unless you're fairly sure they can make crazy (semi-)bluffs a substantial amount of the time, just fold - the donkeys usually raise with you with the goods, even if you think they could never in a million years have gotten there.

As ever - think of me as your own personal Poker Jesus ... making serial cock-ups and exposing them for your delectation to save you from treading in my own chronically-retarded size 8 footsteps Wink

BokitoNL

1687 posts

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ur so bad

ScottyStarburst

314 posts

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pretty easy check fold imo with is bet size..

i mean what are you beating that his turned into a bluff 34?

I cant imagine why ud call

MRBUSTOP

153 posts

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HEY SIR, your still the man, I think bigger bet on flop would have giving you more info and with the 2 on the turn if he had called would have changed the way you would have played the hand , hope to see you at the tables soon M8, DUNBAR YOU ARE A BABE loved taking you out the other day /wink mind i should have won it i got donked out /gggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

discomonkey

3103 posts
Team PKR Pro

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tbh mate i might cehck raise the flop and lead the turn. but i think urline is perfectly fine.

ur value towning flop and turn, and when the lfush gets there he flats 90% of hands other than blufffs which are unlikley or the flush so you are asking him if he has it.

i take ur line here sometimes, especially on the turn cos ur hand is super vulnerable any overs and u hate ur life..........

2 possibl lines imo,
check raise flop
bet turn
check call, check fold river

or bet bet/raise flop
bet/raise turn
bet/fold river

pretty tough spot vs pkr players on that river.....cant see many reasons for calling tho...

Chivalrousgent

5679 posts
Player Moderator

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"cant see many reasons for calling tho..."

As I said ... curiosity Sad I hate the fact that my thought process was effectively composed of:

"Jesus, well he couldn't have called with a flush draw could he .. .and this is PKR after all. He must be running some BS bluff repping the flush in some ill thought-through play".

Of course, OCCASIONALLY I'm right, but it's part of one of my leaks, forgetting that whilst they can sometimes bet with chit, it's relatively unusual to raise without the goods (unless they are clearly superaggro lagtards).

discomonkey

3103 posts
Team PKR Pro

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c,c,r is 100% never a bluff by standard pkr playes, maybe others can do it on here but so unlikely

cradock is always harping on at me, when they raise the river on pkr 99% they have it!!

RIFTY

192 posts

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satfat

1263 posts

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its always a flush on the river in this spot to random donkalong chivvo. even if hes so bad hes decieded to sloroll u the whole way with AA/KK its good. pretty questionable commting reraise on river tho with 10 hi flush on paired board, further proof of fishassss

Chivalrousgent

5679 posts
Player Moderator

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Cheers for the responses btw guys - public embarrassment and being assured that I should never be calling there, even when I actually know this, hammers it home and helps me plug the curiosity/"I can't fold syndrome" leak Wink

+1 about the retarded rr ... I contemplated shipping over it to rep boat but realised that frankly that line is never working except on someone remotely capable of over-thinking and making high-odds folds >_<

On the plus side, I barely made a mistake after this and managed to FT for $1k, so justice was ultimately done.

Needless to say he donked off his chips within about 30 mins, despite doubling up through someone else.

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