Lets talk PLO, by Micky

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Posted: 22-Jun-2009 05:31 by SleepyngB

pls do, will be great
have no questions atm

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Posted: 22-Jun-2009 23:40 by Micheal774

Ty.
Im also doing this to help my continued education in poker as the top players here are very helpful,so I want to try and contribute back to the comunity with something i have some knowlodge of.
We'll see if this works out if not then there is always tommorow to try again.

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 01:58 by Micheal774

Im on a mission,to make the final table at the 00:20 5$ PLO game every time i play it. I just came in 10th tonight wich i think makes it 9 out of 10 games so far in the last 2 weeks.Ultitematly if i make 80% of the final tables in the next six months i will be extremely happy.will update next game.

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 12:45 by danc87

isit it just me or isit pointless raising in plo until the later stages because everyone seems to call no matter what they have

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 16:00 by wulfy

it's not pointless, all small edges must be pushed in all forms of tournament play.
in PLO pre-flop edges are small, so raising for 'value' isn't easy pre-flop, since even super-strong hands are rarely more than 70% over a junk hand.
but that's not the only reason we raise... we do it to take initiative, to isolate weak players, and occasionally buy position (which is not easy when so many will cold call any four cards in behind you, but position is important in all 'button/blinds' poker vairiants... so push that edge).
later in tournaments its easier to raise for value because of the changes in blind:stack ratio's, and you'll often find it easy to get in >1/3 of your stack with strong pre-flop holdings.

in the early stages... if your only goal is to steal the blinds, then yes raising is pointless. but if you have a broader objective... then it's essential.

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 16:26 by gaztheyorkie

So i have AA22, now obv i have the best of both worlds if the flop comes 345 or TKQ im looking at a half decent hand so i need to be raising here but how much

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 16:36 by wulfy

1 millon.

ps. how does TKQ help AA22?
pps. its only 3rd nut on 345, or are you talking about 08?

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Posted: 23-Jun-2009 19:21 by JohnnyKei

Do you call pot sized bets on the turn when you have let's say nut flush draw and a nut gutshot draw?

How do you play top/middle set on a draw heavy board? any position

How do you play naked aces when the board misses you?

How do you play non top two pair on flop?

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 03:07 by Micheal774

To danc87,raise in early stages for value based on your hand ranking and in later stages to steal based on the player.
lmao,and yes every one calls in early stages of the game thats why you go for value.

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 03:24 by Micheal774

To wulfy,i like what you said so ill just point out a few things so take them with a grain of salt.
1)your rarely ever at the best 62/38 1 on 1
2)unlike NLH your goal is not quite to isolate but to lower the field to 2-4 players with 1 execption,when you have weak As on the button against a short stack and no raises behind you
3)very well said about getting 1/3 of your chips in the later stages

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 03:33 by Micheal774

To gaz,is this a trick ?. Get ready to fold that hand to a mid/pot sized bet m8 or your losin alot of chips,unless your lucky enogh to be double suited for some help.
1)12345 is beat by 34567
2)against TQK you only have top pair over the board with no draws
Bring me harder ?s my friend.
YAY! Gaz welcome back m8.

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 03:51 by Micheal774

To JohnnyKie,very nice ?s.
1)sets to draw heavy boards/alot o this will depend on the # of players in the hand the type of player and your position but for reference-top sets are nice to have even on a drawing board and mid to bottom sets will in the long run lose you a lot of money.
2)Naked As,if the board is a rainbow and only 1-2 players in with you bet them and can even raise small and prepare to fold to a reraise unless your short stacked,BUT on a draw heavy board dont waist you chips.
3) top and bottom pair id bet to see were im at in the hand,and bottom 2 pair try to get in cheap and always remember playing the bottom in PLO is in the long run gonna lose you money-so hopefuly you have a read on your opponent in those cases.
Again,verey good questions m8.

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 03:55 by Micheal774

Tonights 00:20 5$ PLO game i took 3rd.10 for 11 games now

Jam it hard

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 04:27 by wulfy

even super-strong hands are rarely more than 70% over a junk hand

somethig like AdAc6d7c vs KdTc6h2s fits the super strong vs junk description and i believe its close to 70-30. i know its a rare spot, but i was just pointing out that you wont find the 82-18 spots that you can in NLHE

to isolate weak players

this is always a good idea... two bad players limp, i'm gonna pot regularly from the button/cuttoff with anything that i intend to play... i don't wanna 'share' the fish with the two sharks sat in the blinds. fortunately, sharks dont tend to love cold calling (although more so in omaha than nlhe)... wheras the fishies love it.
by 'isolate' i didnt necessarily mean get HU (although that would be awesome). so i guess i chose the wrong word :p

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 21:40 by Micheal774

Thanks for the correction wulfy i meant you no insult cause i thought your first post on here was very good...so keep adding comments m8 as id love to hear them.

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Posted: 24-Jun-2009 21:52 by Micheal774

thoughts on this ? please.
you have 89TJ double suited against 2 other players.you on the button and min raise for value..small B min raises you and the BB pot raises both (lets say closely stacked at 4k and blinds are 100/200).What now?

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Posted: 25-Jun-2009 02:15 by Micheal774

Took 6th tonight 11 for 12 think i played weak tonight as i was watching 4 new players.And might i aadd well done to the new guys.

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Posted: 25-Jun-2009 11:35 by Durdy

thoughts on this ? please.
you have 89TJ double suited against 2 other players.you on the button and min raise for value..small B min raises you and the BB pot raises both (lets say closely stacked at 4k and blinds are 100/200).What now?



Micheal774, 24/06/2009

Just fold, or repush when hes marked with AAxx. Dont like flat callin hopin to flop some or not..

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Posted: 25-Jun-2009 22:17 by Micheal774

Thanks Durdy,next ?-what if you have the AA but theyre dry in the same hand

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Posted: 26-Jun-2009 01:08 by Micheal774

17/28 tonight i played strong and sand bagged someone who hit their flush on the river against my top trips on flop thats 11 for 13 now.

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Posted: 26-Jun-2009 23:52 by JohnnyKei

Nice thread!

I'm mainly a plo cash player as grinding nlhe these days is a pain in the ass tbh

I see you are talking tournament strategy mostly but it pretty much comes down to the same unlike nlhe

1)sets to draw heavy boards/alot o this will depend on the # of players in the hand the type of player and your position but for reference-top sets are nice to have even on a drawing board and mid to bottom sets will in the long run lose you a lot of money

in this spot I make a feeler bet see where I stand and fold if I see to much action (disregard number of players, stacks, etc etc) With top set I will push tho

2)Naked As,if the board is a rainbow and only 1-2 players in with you bet them and can even raise small and prepare to fold to a reraise unless your short stacked,BUT on a draw heavy board dont waist you chips.

Here pretty much in line with you. Naked aces are awful to play even hu. I play these very passive

3) top and bottom pair id bet to see were im at in the hand,and bottom 2 pair try to get in cheap and always remember playing the bottom in PLO is in the long run gonna lose you money-so hopefuly you have a read on your opponent in those cases.

Again in the same line. Non top two pair in plo for me is just like top pair rubbish kicker in nlhe. Maybe the best hand but too weak. Even if you make a full house you'll get coolered most of the times if you get any action making it a really -ev hand to play. These hands I mostly check the flop and take a stab on a blank turn

thoughts on this ? please.
you have 89TJ double suited against 2 other players.you on the button and min raise for value..small B min raises you and the BB pot raises both (lets say closely stacked at 4k and blinds are 100/200).What now?

On a cash game I call with this hand day of the week and twice on sunday. Such high connectors double suited do very well against any re-pot hand. In a tournament I guess would even would be willing to bust with this hand. If you're not pot commited see a flop and re evaluate

More Q's coming up!

Johnny

edit: gratz on the great tournament results btw!

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Posted: 27-Jun-2009 02:02 by Micheal774

And my answer to garyzak coming soon.
Keep the ?s coming lets bring PLO to another level.

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Posted: 27-Jun-2009 06:32 by SleepyngB

What if u have hand like AdAhKdQs, u make big preflop bet, 3 callers, flop comes QTs Kh, i make potbet and 1 caller. Turn comes a blank, i check, other player makes potbet. what do i do?


and YES: vn thread

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Posted: 27-Jun-2009 07:21 by SleepyngB

I got confused why these players call my bets, starting to get worried about someone having JJ. Did i play it right?

Table #17637809 - Tournament #10821966 Table #2
Game Type: OMAHA
Limit Type: POT LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $10/$20
Button is at seat 7
Seat 1: hiks260 - $790
Seat 2: Waldemar1 - $2,120
Seat 3: SleepyngB - $1,980
Seat 4: PrettyBullet - $2,000
Seat 5: bing71 - $1,920
Seat 6: PatCash73 - $1,990
Seat 7: Ferdino - $1,830
Seat 8: KIRCHNER - $3,390
Seat 9: SmooC - $1,980
Moving Button to seat 8
SmooC posts small blind ($10)
hiks260 posts big blind ($20)
Dealing [Kh Qs 8s Ac] to SleepyngB
Waldemar1 calls $20
SleepyngB calls $20
PrettyBullet folds
bing71 calls $20
PatCash73 calls $20
Ferdino calls $20
KIRCHNER calls $20
SmooC calls $20
hiks260 checks
Dealing Flop [8d 3d Qh]
SmooC checks
hiks260 bets $20
Waldemar1 calls $20
SleepyngB calls $20
bing71 calls $20
PatCash73 calls $20
Ferdino calls $20
KIRCHNER folds
SmooC folds
Dealing Turn [Qd]
hiks260 folds
Waldemar1 checks
SleepyngB bets $160
bing71 folds
PatCash73 calls $160
Ferdino calls $160
Waldemar1 folds
Dealing River [Jh]
SleepyngB bets $160
PatCash73 calls $160
Ferdino calls $160
SleepyngB shows [Kh Qs 8s Ac]
SleepyngB has Full House, Queens over 8s
PatCash73 mucks
Ferdino mucks
SleepyngB wins $1,240 with: Full House, Queens over 8s
Seat 1: hiks260 - $750
Seat 2: Waldemar1 - $2,080
Seat 3: SleepyngB - $2,860
Seat 4: PrettyBullet - $2,000
Seat 5: bing71 - $1,880
Seat 6: PatCash73 - $1,630
Seat 7: Ferdino - $1,470
Seat 8: KIRCHNER - $3,370
Seat 9: SmooC - $1,960
End Of Hand #858003778

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Posted: 28-Jun-2009 17:06 by Micheal774

Answer for garyzak's ? for whats the most outs you can have in a PLO hand?
example-JT67 with a flop of 489 giving you 20 outs,now make it JsTs6h7h with a flop of 4h8s9s for the addition of the flush draws and(snap) im jumpin outa my seat! i want this hand right now lol.