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All-in with any two cards?

Team PKR Pro Andrew Teng on the art of accumulating chips without cards

By Andy 'golfpro699' Teng on Wednesday 9 Sep 2009 17:45


Focus on player's hands, cards and chips

A common complaint that I've been reading the forums a lot recently, is the struggle for chips late on in tournaments...

golfpro699

People are saying that they're playing 'TAG' early on and doing OK, but are struggling to find playable hands late on in tournaments. An effective way around this is to use your stack and win pots via aggression. In this article I'm going to look specifically at what I call the '20-bet re-jam'.

With a chip-stack in the 15bb-30bbs range, I'm looking to be aggressive against loose openers. The later the position people are in, the less likely they are to have a strong hand, because the range of hands they play increases. So I'd treat an UTG raisor differently to a CO opener, simply because I have to assume the UTG player opens for much more strength. People are constantly trying to steal blinds, especially from late position, and the most effective way to defend yourself when short is to move all-in. Here's an example to think about:

The EV calculation

We're sitting with 20k chips in the bb, the button covers us and he raises to 3,000 at 500/1k/125 (we are 9-handed). So theres 5,625 in the pot, the sb folds and in the bb we're shoving 18,875 to win the pot.

We need to think about what range the button has, when opening for a raise here. The top 30% of hands includes all hands Ax, down to 98s+ and T9o+. It doesn't include A6o, A4o and pairs 22-44, so the range could really be even wider. For ease though, I assume the villain is opening 30% of hands, but only calling with 66+, A9s+, KQs, ATo+, KQo (which works out at around 10%). This is what we get from pokerstove [the online poker odds comparison tool which uniquely employs hand ranges]:

289,464,991,200 games 0.059 secs 4,906,186,291,525 games/sec

(equity - win - tie)
Hand 0: 68.059% 67.30% 00.76% { 66+, A9s+, KQs, ATo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 31.941% 31.18% 00.76% { random }

So, versus the villain's calling range, a random hand has 31.9% equity. Not bad! What use is this to us? Well at this point, we have a lot of data that can be used to run an EV calculation:

p - % he will fold
pot = size of the pot, before shoving
e - your equity if called in the final pot
s - amount of the shove

EV = (p*pot) + (1-p) * (e - s)

He raises 30% & calls with 10%
I have 31.9% with ATC

2/3 * 5625 + (1/3)* (.319(43375) - 18875) = 2070.6

So according to these estimations of the villain's opening range and his calling range, this is a +EV shove. Here the villain is opening wide relative to his calling range, and shoving works out with any two cards. Obviously rather than ATC, a strongish hand would be preferable for the sake of the times when we do get called. However this basic scenario is pretty common as stacks get shallower, and is definitely something to be aware of. Also, note that if you have the same fold equity, but a smaller stack, then your shove is even more profitable.

Finally, bear in mind history and metagame. If people are expecting you to shove wide, they will loosen their calling ranges and/or tighten their opening ranges, and so shoving any two cards may not be plausible. Playing around with pokerstove and thinking about specific situations you encounter will help with future 'in game' spots which are similar.

Andrew 'golfpro699' Teng is a Team PKR Pro and GUKPT champion. Chat with him in the PKR Forums!
 


Comments

I did notice something was missing from the calculations, called the (FF).

I cant explain what (FF) is cos PKR will ban me, lets just say, we can get their by eurotunnel and they have big noses. Oh but the second F stands for (Factor) LMAO @ PKR

Comment by Stuey352 - 19/05/10 (Report)

Edited on: 19 May 2010 08:53

its a joke site everybody says it.
people lose with the best hands en the donks of the one with a bigger stack wins
its not normal anymore

Comment by william1985 - 05/03/10 (Report)

I'm 19 years old and i understood all of it, to everyone who didnt understand - and didnt even try to - you are donuts! and if you dont use maths you'll never make a profit, this guy knows what he's talking about. dont moan .. OPEN UR STUPID ASS MINDS!

Comment by dbc1602 - 16/02/10 (Report)

read the bloomin thing 3 times then ur understand, brains work in different ways, i see what ur saying and i wish everyone would read this then we could all make easy money. still think you need the right timing tho

Comment by ThePokerbear - 14/02/10 (Report)

Great post Andy, thx!

I guess I am/was one of those struggling players late in the tournament! I'm definitely going to think about all of the above.

The math by the way is not a problem for me. If it would have been an issue I could still get from your article that shoving in these positions with almost any two cards is a profitable overall strategy if we assume the original raiser FOLDS 2 out of 3 times and when he calls the third time, we still have a 30% chance of winning the hand.

Thx again mate.

Comment by Kakabuku - 06/02/10 (Report)

Conclusion: short-stacked ove allin ASAP ;)

Comment by MrJTB - 30/12/09 (Report)

For some new aspects on that I recommend reading 'Kill Everyone`(Lee Nelson and others) (in PKR Shop available). The Theorie is here compliment with Prizestructure-EV, bubble-factors and tournements-odds.

So if you want play your tournements mathematical correct a must read. No, IT IS THE MUSTREAD!

"Finally, bear in mind history and metagame." (golfpro699) This matters, independent from all maths!

Comment by AlaskanIce76 - 18/10/09 (Report)

Hahaha love the confusion posts but yea I like the way u put it no tapping the tank ther lol

Comment by hotflush08 - 03/10/09 (Report)

Erm... should my nose and ears bleed after trying to comprehend this? I've read a few books and thought I knew a bit but halfway through it went all Charlie Brown (wa waa waaaa wa wa)
I know your trying to help sorry

p.s. Jdnorway it's not quite "basic maths" really thats like johny has 5 apples?

Comment by barcode1973 - 23/09/09 (Report)

Edited on: 23 Sep 2009 08:48

right so pocket aces all in then!!

Comment by 666karl - 21/09/09 (Report)

Btw, perhaps some units in your last equation might help people understand (i.e. "you should expect to be on average 2070.6 dollars better off by shoving in this spot rather than folding").

Also, it might help to include a quick definition of EV: "EV = Expected Value from making a move - raise or call - in a given situation, based on assumptions about the villains' expected hand range and tendencies (probability that they will fold, call or raise with the range you put them on)"

Comment by jdnorway - 21/09/09 (Report)

I like this a lot, Andy. Great post. You can't expect non-thinking players to make the effort to understand basic maths, but this section isn't meant for beginners, is it?

Comment by jdnorway - 21/09/09 (Report)

im a beginner..advice is ment 2 b helpful,not confuseing...but thanks anyway..

Comment by wheels1964 - 18/09/09 (Report)

Like it, Mr. Teng ;)

Bets on how many aggrodonks will, when lambasted for shoving with total shite, direct their detractors to this post and say "but Andy told me so" .... :P

Comment by Chivalrousgent - 10/09/09 (Report)

i found some numbers and was trying to figure out the expected value of a play based on assumptions and information i would have in game.

i should have said the 2/3 and 1/3 i used was because villain raises 30% of hands and calls 10%, so 2/3 the time he folds and 1/3 he calls.
what else doesn't make sense?
2070.6 is the expected value outcome so on average you win that amount (although that exact profit is never directly realised in any single instance of making the shove)

Comment by golfpro699 - 10/09/09 (Report)

Yeah i agree that is just too much to take in , in fact I couldn't actually tell you what any of it means.
My mind is well and truly boggled.

Comment by ray350 - 10/09/09 (Report)

Until now, I never realised that any card game involved the mathematics of quarks and quasars concerning black holes and the make-up of our universe. That must be why S.Hawking keeps beating me at Snap.

Comment by MrKeema - 10/09/09 (Report)

what the hell?

Comment by MissyloveLady - 10/09/09 (Report)

Wow - I think I need a physics professor to unscramble that for me !

Comment by Saucey - 10/09/09 (Report)

Jesus my heads scrambled after that one I'm away back to school :)

Comment by Masterchief78 - 10/09/09 (Report)

OK so.... WHAT?

Comment by ashafiee - 09/09/09 (Report)

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