Translating fishy comments

By Rick Dacey


24 comments Thursday 23 Jul 2009 09:00

Fish speak a different language from good poker players; they say one thing but in our tongue it means something entirely different.

What’s more, if you pay attention to what tilting and weak players say you can gain knowledge of their game and make it even easier to take their chips.

Here are three key quotes you’ll often see thumped into a chat box and what they might tell you about the mood and mindset of the player who typed them…

1) ‘I hate Aces. I should throw them away preflop.’
This fish has usually just lost a huge pot with Aces after getting called preflop, betting a dangerous board and calling all-in for a big shove on the turn when a card bringing the straight and flush has arrived. They could be beating something but that something is likely to be air. Nobody hates Aces – even Doyle Brunson still gets a little excited when he sees the pocket rockets – but nothing is bullet-proof. This kind of player can’t lay down a hand, especially a big pair, so you should be value-raising/shoving two-pair hands and better.

2) ‘I knew you had [insert your hand here].’
No, this player did not know you had middle pair with an open-ended straight draw from the flop onwards, otherwise it would not have taken him almost his entire time bank to convince himself that his top pair, medium kicker was good. This is a player who, when unsure of his hand, considers calling, considers folding, but doesn’t consider how the hand has played out up to this point. Eventually he just shrugs and clicks the ‘Let’s see how I’m beaten’ button before celebrating his inability to fold by falsely claiming he knew what cards you had. This is not a player to bluff. He is, however, a good player to make thin value bets against when you have a good read on his hand.

3) ‘I can’t believe you called with that crap.’
You called a 3x raise with Ah-5h preflop against a fellow deep-stack and called a further pot-sized bet on a 4h-6d-8s flop with a gutshot, backdoor flush and, very importantly, position. The turn gives you the flush draw, which you end up hitting on the river. The player calls a very hefty bet on the river before berating the call you made on the flop that allowed you to catch runner-runner for a flush. You can assume this player has a very ABC approach to the game and is unlikely to get out of line very often. Playing in position behind him will be very profitable as he’ll play his hand face-up and thinks you’re the huge fish. Perfect!

Read Part 1...

Read Part 2...
 


Comments

3) this is an advanced play to be floating here with a gutshot here for money people, against the wrong players i would consider a bad/fishy, however against the correct plaers ie those who cant fold aa on turns or river as i mentioned before, it is a perfectly acceptable play for either 1 of two reasons.

a) they have ak/aq/jts etc an thus by "floating them on the flop you cna take the hand away from them on a later street should they not improve or you do,

b) you may spike a big turn or river card for you, and they refuse to lay down their big pair and thus you get maximum value out of your hand, of course you have to be able to decide what hand ranges they are on and how to proceed witht he hand based on thast information,

Comment by discomonkey - 05/08/09 (Report)

i agree with all of what rick says.

1) people who complain about aces are those who cannot pay them properly, ie cant play them post flop and assume they can never fold them. thus making massive bets against these players who cant lay down big pairs when you hit is going to be a profitable play long term,

2) these sorts of spots are always awkward because you can never be 100% sure of the oppoenents hole cards, merely you know theuir range of hands at any given point in the hand, maybe you have narrowed that range down to one of 2 or 3 hands but it is still a range and thus many players announce what thye think you have (that is beating them) if they are going to fold, or what they are beating (if they are going to call) to give the impression that they are doing the right thing to the rest of the table if the hand doesnt go to a showdown.

3) this is an advanced play to be floating here with a gutshot here for money people, against the wrong players i would consider a bad/f

Comment by discomonkey - 05/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 05 Aug 2009 13:41

Even if it's going a little off topic for the initial post; I think I should expand the play mentioned in the 3rd point as some people seem to be missing something here. As wilywoods mentioned it's 'position' and 'deep stack' that are the keys words.

Let's say both players have $200 stacks in a $0.50/$1 game for 200 bbs.

Initial raise is $3 so you're calling $3 with position with A5s to potentially win $200.

Flop is 4h-6d-8s and the oop raiser bets. It could be genuine or it could be a continuation bet. If you raise you could get 3-bet by hands including 99-AA and be forced to fold. If you're up against 99-KK you're currently only a 2-1 dog (and therefore getting the correct odds to call a pot-sized bet on the flop, also 2-1). If the pot's $7.50 when they bet it's costing you just $7.50 to see the turn (and they still have a lot behind). Even against AA you've got 22% equity in the hand (and against the top 10% starting hands your equity is as big as 45%!).

Comment by RickDacey - 31/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 31 Jul 2009 10:08

im sorry but i do not think this is much help to anyone, saying i hate aces could be a tell but it can mean lots of different things, like maybe they have pocket pair lower than q's and halfway through a hand decide they like the size of the pot and want to take it down there and then, so as an aid of boosting the power of your pocket 10s you say I HATE ACES so if your opponent has pockets tens to kings your giveing them that little bit more to think about

Comment by SteJones99 - 27/07/09 (Report)

fact of the matter is AA stands a chance of being the highest pair in any game so play until stakes become too high

Comment by dbiamond - 25/07/09 (Report)

1)Having AA pre-flop is an all-in scenario, every time, and I'd walk away knowing I did the right thing, even if I got turned over.

2)Sometimes it's worth to pay to be sure that your instinct is right, and it often pays off later in the game.

3)I don't know who you'd call the so called fish in this scenario. Play like that isn't worth 'praise'.

Comment by alan2179 - 25/07/09 (Report)

If berating players for out drawing you well against the odds classes you as a fish, then I'm a whale shark (biggest fish in the ocean apparently, according to Google).

I know it doesn't change the outcome but it damn well makes me feel better, until i look at there stats and see -26% ROI which makes me feel even better :oP

But i think there's a different breed of player on PKR, different from the fish these players arn't card players they're pure gamblers! Chancers who know the odds they just like to flip for it, they're like machines churning out bad beats against the very fabric of probability. I'm not sure why PKR attracts them, maybe it's the software, interactive features? And they always seem to work their magic on me in quick succession, luck has a strange sense of irony it seems.

As for fish talk, what a load of cod roe, for me actions speak louder than words and the fish are generally isolated within a few hands from the poor decisions they make.

Comment by maverick1dj - 25/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 25 Jul 2009 01:10

There are always n00bs asking how to do this and how to do that. Calling and folding seem to be hard for some players although they are the biggest buttons on the whole window. I thought there would be more of these (1 per 2 games maybe) but here are the results for "how can" search on about 3000 games.

frozone: how can you call on the flop? (he didnt know that if you fold preflop you cant make a call on the flop)
many many games later:
frozone: how can u call (forgot already??)
rhinonutz: how can u call an all in to Ak with 99 (??)
TomboNAC: how can you win with 55?
SN1P3R: how can u get a royal and get bad beat bonus?
ts110: how can you fold there?
Spazpecker: how can you call that?
dagaman: how can u call with that
GAVTRIX: how can u call cmauchamp
flaminhot: how can you fold
GAVTRIX: how can u call three bets with bottom pair lol

Comment by tehappon - 24/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 24 Jul 2009 22:32

-

Comment by tehappon - 24/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 24 Jul 2009 22:32

I think I am a fish. But then, at times I think we all are. Surely a players willingness to play marginal hands depends upon a number of factors. Therefore, your article is too vague to be of any use to me. Or maybe, I don't get it because I am a fish.

Comment by Jason360 - 24/07/09 (Report)

The article is called translating fishy comments. Some fishy comments please.

Comment by Jason360 - 24/07/09 (Report)

Well... if it makes me a fish if I berate another player for calling or raising with shit then I am one. Lets face it, if that is the case, we are all fish cos i can guarantee we've all done it and will continue to do so!!

Comment by awesome1 - 24/07/09 (Report)

Can someone explain fully what the term FISH means.

Comment by rockett57 - 24/07/09 (Report)

double post..sorry pls delete this

Comment by MacGyver - 24/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 31 Jul 2009 10:15

third case scenario is pure fish play...sorry...I have AA and A5 hits...some FISH calls with 28 and flushes on the river regardless of my bets...and more than 3x....pkr seems to let the underdogs win. All too often I see AA crackd by 6/10 o/s,,,SICK!
It doesn't matter how big your stack is or betting position...a fish is a FISH! <

Comment by MacGyver - 24/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 31 Jul 2009 10:18

People are often quite rude when they think you have played badly and beaten them (baring luck) they don't stay in the game much longer - which is good because they probably aren't enjoying it at that point. As an aside A5 suited is quite strong in position, you've a chance to double up and with a deep stack that blows pot odds wide open.

Comment by Aachi - 23/07/09 (Report)

@TallPaul79 : more than anything in the world right now- i want to know what your post was. It seems such a shame for it to have been taken by the gods. I have a feeling it would have changed many peoples lives.

Comment by SevardMontreal - 23/07/09 (Report)

Ok you might be claiming that I am exactlt the player that you are talking about because I would give the caller of A5 a really hard time. I cannot accept that just because the player got outrageously lucky makes it a good play. What about the 90% of the time when he loses everything having called a hopeless hand with no pot odds. I believe its says more about the player(fish) than the player doing the berating. However I agree that moaning doesn't change the outcome.

Comment by Winnie66 - 23/07/09 (Report)

it all makes perfect sense to me, the key words in point 3 are 'deep stack' and 'position' anyway arent they egs to show what language a fish may mis-use?

Comment by wilywoods - 23/07/09 (Report)

god only knowa what happened to my post but I cant be bothered to type it again.

Comment by TallPaul79 - 23/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 23 Jul 2009 19:11

your 1st point makes sense but the 2nd and 3rd are too vague of a scenario to apply exact quotations to a specific.

A wise man once said "millions of people will say, i'm better than you... but are they bluffing?" so my advice is dont believe everything you see, read or hear. The only reason i'm gonna leave this post is because I think this reply is about as pointless as the post in the first place.

Good luck at the tables though, I'll look out for your A5 suited plays :-)

Comment by Kevinferno - 23/07/09 (Report)

:D:D

Comment by hashex - 23/07/09 (Report)

Edited on: 23 Jul 2009 16:09

OK What the hell to do if u have AA pre-flop and someone has shoved all-in! I seem to get beat like this all the time Sad

Comment by Seany2009 - 23/07/09 (Report)

lol you are the fish if u think 3rd play was good tbh.

Comment by KarolisT - 23/07/09 (Report)

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