474 Articles
Advanced search

Advanced search
Keyword search:


Tag search: Select all Deselect all


Filter articles

Do you know why you’re betting? (Part 2): Why you shouldn’t bet for ‘information’

'Getting information’ is not a valid reason for making a bet in hold’em

By Nick Wealthall on Thursday 17 Sep 2009 10:00


Betting for information is often used as an excuse by players who aren’t sure why they’re betting. Don’t be one of them

Why you shouldn’t bet for ‘information’

You will often hear players use phrases like ‘I bet to find out where I was.’ In fact even in analysis or poker commentary people use the phrase ‘bet (or raise) for information’. Most of the time it’s a mistake to view a bet or a raise as an attempt to gain information. And here’s why…

The first problem is that you may not get the information you want or may not like the information you get. Let’s say you call a preflop raiser with 8-8 and the flop comes K-6-2. You don’t know if your Eights are good or not so you decide to bet to ‘find out where you’re at.’ Your opponent raises you – now what? What information have you gained? Have you just found out your hand is beaten or have you just found out your opponent is a strong player who views your lead as weakness?

What if your opponent calls your bet – what have you learned now? Maybe your opponent’s call is weakness and he’s calling with a worse hand, maybe it’s strength and he’ll extract value from you on a later street. He may even be floating you with position.

Thinking like a winner

Getting information should be a by-product of betting, not the sole reason for your bet. It simply is not a good enough reason for putting chips in a pot, because good players will exploit you. Of course, your opponents’ response to your bets will give you information, but you shouldn’t be choosing to bet just so that you can respond to their reaction! Betting to see where you are is a defensive way of thinking about the game and is counter to what should be your main plan: to be the one asking the difficult questions. You should focus on making as many of your bets as possible either for value to be called by worse hands or as bluffs to make better hands fold. That way you’re the aggressor and you’re thinking about the game in the right way. 
 

Read Part 1...

Read Part 3...


Comments

-

Comment by tehappon - 18/09/09 (Report)

Edited on: 18 Sep 2009 21:11

I don't missed it... well, at least not completly. As I said: ... you should ALWAYS know why you are betting AND act according to

You do right to clarify that the main point of the Post is that. And I recognize that maybe my answer was way to long. But my point was that maybe, just maybe, the example was very trivial (or at least no detailed enought).

See you at the tables!

Comment by Petry05 - 18/09/09 (Report)

Youre missing the point. It's not about whether checking or betting is right or wrong (in the example). It's about WHY you are betting and what is your plan after that.
btw you can check for ‘information’ too. It's much more acceptable than betting for information :P

Comment by tehappon - 17/09/09 (Report)

... continuation

- If the player is tigth agressive, he's most likely to fold if he didn't hit in the flop. Whathever he call o re-raise can definitly be seen as a sign of strenght. BUT, he's decision will also strongly depend on YOUR OWN image at the table.

In general however, in this situation you should bet, has checking will give the villian a free card, and there are LOTS OF CARDS that can beat your pair 8.
If you are called or raised, then you should start thinking about a withdrawal, if you can get free card to the river and win in the showdown, then GOOD!, a pair 8 is not a hand from where you can take lot of value! If he raise you, or bet in the turn, so be it, withdraw and if he show he was bluffing, you shouldn't blame yourself, you make the best descition in the long term.

What I do agree with Nick is that you should ALWAYS know why you are betting AND act according to. See you at the table!

Comment by Petry05 - 17/09/09 (Report)

Edited on: 17 Sep 2009 17:30

I mostly agree with Phoenix, altought lets give a closer look to the example:

-it says you call a preflop RAISE, so here the image is the first thing, is he tight? is he loose?
-ok, so you called, and the flop came K 6 2, you talk first. You already have take in consideration if he's loose or tight, now in the flop you will have to ask yourself if he's aggresive or passive.

That one is maybe the most important if you want to make a bet for info.

- If the player is a calling station (tight passive o loose passive), he's likely to pay and pay again until the river, and beat you then. Against those players you have two choises: check and give him free cards until the river hopping he don't bet, or betting more than you would normally do, risking lot of chips.

Comment by Petry05 - 17/09/09 (Report)

Edited on: 17 Sep 2009 17:28

i understand, obviously its only worth putting in a tester bet if u have outs

Comment by joeleeming19 - 17/09/09 (Report)

Can i also say that as soon as your opponent makes the preflop raise you should be able to put him on a hand of some description, and you should also be thinking about your own image, what sort of hand does my opponent think ive got?

If hes a tight player then hell have premium hands, is K 6 2 a scary board for you if you raise preflop and flop top pair? Do you really scare away the only person in the hand or do you get some value? What about other hands, AQ, AJ, QQ can he call here if you bet? But if you check and he bets can you really call with 88?

No disrespect Nick but i think your strategy is flawed and misleading.

Comment by SBPhoenix1987 - 29/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 29 Aug 2009 21:48

i whole heartedly disagree with this post. You dont bet for information, but you do get it after the bet is made. What happens if you use the above scenario and instead of betting you check?

Your opponent uses his position to his advantage and leads the pot. Now you have no idea if hes using his position or taking a stab at it. Now if you want to find out if he has a king you have to re-raise putting in twice the amount you would have had to had you been the initial raiser.

Being the initial raiser aids you in so many ways. A) you have the oppurtunity to take the pot down right there.
B) It strengthens your table image as an aggressive player, raising with a hand and betting the flop.
C)Youve taken control of the pot straight away, now instead of having to act your opponent is having to react and ask himself some serious questions. Hands like AQ AJ , K X cant possibly make a call here.

Comment by SBPhoenix1987 - 29/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 29 Aug 2009 21:43

ok,ok

Comment by SERB24 - 29/08/09 (Report)

Leave a comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.
Register



Join the game now!

Download the world's most advanced poker room. Read more »

More from Raise your game

Latest comments

Scott, i've been playing live for the last 2 years 3 times a week. £10 buyin with £5 rebuy. What you say works perfectly live and online, espesciaaly against players who are drinking whilst playin. Thanks for advice, keep it coming. Ravan

From Ravan77 3 hours ago
about Scott on Sit & Gos


Pretty sure this is aimed at players who are starting out, and that there are limits to SNG strategy so much of it will have been said before (like most poker strategy), but this series is specifically aimed at the player experience at a particular level on PKR, from a Team Pro who has actually done it himself. If this series helps one player to improve, which it will, it will have done its job.

From PKR_Danski 17 hours ago
about Scott on Sit & Gos


Hahaha this is a joke, months of study ? played 7 games at 5.50 beside he copied a very famous article written for Sit n goes ?

From BokitoNL 1 day ago
about Scott on Sit & Gos

Raise Your Game
Scott on Sit & Gos

Our Team PKR Pro and WSOPE champ reveals the secret to beating PKR's most popular Sit & Go -...

1 day ago

Play like Beyne

Become aggressive, unpredictable and hard to read with the help of the Mad Russian

13 days ago

Handling swings

Like death and taxes, swings are unavoidable when you’re a poker player – learn to handle them prope...

19 days ago