Is stalling ethical?: Using the clock to your advantage (Part 1)

By Phil Shaw


12 comments Wednesday 19 Aug 2009 18:45

Many players argue that manipulating tournament poker by letting the clock run down is an abuse of time banks. We explore the dilemma…

One of the most controversial subjects in Sit & Go’s and tournaments is the use of the clock to manipulate the action (often referred to as stalling). This is most commonly a problem in online poker, where players have a fixed time bank and cannot see their opponents face to face. It has become a heated subject at times, with pros like Daniel Negreanu fiercely opposing the tactic, while other online pros defend the practice as just part of the game. Despite this though, most sites do not give out any penalties for stalling, since it is hard to enforce and players are seen as being allowed to use their time bank as they wish.

It’s worth nothing that you’re not actually breaking any rules by stalling. However, if you are going to use this slightly underhand measure you should consider the circumstances and possible consequences carefully. Firstly you should check to see whether other people are doing it already in your tournament. If so it is perfectly within your rights to do the same thing so that an equal number of hands is played on your table (for example, on the bubble of a MTT or Sit & Go). If you don’t pay attention to this kind of play you could be the one forced into paying for a crucial blind increase. The logical outcome of this, however, is that everyone starts stalling and the game grinds to a halt on the bubble, so you want to be careful about initiating such tactics.

Secondly, you should ask how important the situation is. If you are short-stacked on the bubble of an MTT or there is a very big blind increase coming you should clearly be more inclined to stall, so save this tactic for only the most crucial situations.

Bad karma?

Finally, you should ask what negative consequences there might be if you start stalling, and this is the main reason people are more reluctant to do so live. As already stated, the game might grind to a halt, which could be bad for you if you have an edge on the bubble. Worse still, other players might get upset at your tactics and decide to try to knock you out, or spite-stall to ensure that the blind increases hit you instead. Similarly, you may find your reputation being attacked by vocal players with different views on the move’s legality. Therefore, if you are going to stall make sure it’s mainly in response to the behaviour of others. At least try to restrict your use of this tactic to key points in tournaments and Sit & Go’s and hopefully you’ll minimise the negative reactions of other players.


Comments

All players get to use the timebank equally, it is not a bonus some players get over another.

It shouldn't be illegal as each player should be able to use their play time as they choose it should be part of their arsenal, however yes I believe it to be unethical, but then there's lots of moves in poker that are unethical, poker is warfare!

Now I'll support any player's right to stall although I don't agree with it. However...

Logically stalling is detrimental for a well stacked player. If you're well stacked compared to the blinds you want to keep it that way as you have an advantage, why narrow that strong advantage by letting the blinds increase? You want to see as many hands as cheap as possible to take out your opponents without putting your lead at risk.
*CONTINUED*

Comment by maverick1dj - 21/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 21 Aug 2009 23:25

*CONTINUED FROM ABOVE*
How many times have you played at BT where the blinds have increased so much that everyone's stacks pretty much equalise (despite there being a huge spread before), because the short stacks have shot a one or two rounds?

Even if a player will be forced all-in on the next hand if you stall he must have been pretty much pot committed & crippled anyway if you didn't stall?

All it takes is a run of bad cards after you've pushed up the blinds and you'll regret it.

Also those that complain about stalling are usually the players who have made bad judgements calls prior to it happening and are short stacked as a result, you wonder are they really bothered about the stalling or are they steaming because they're behind?

Comment by maverick1dj - 21/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 21 Aug 2009 23:26

The Clock is part of the game Stalling isnt illegal so no problem if it is used.
Deal with it.
If Y know an other player is getting nervous because y take my time Y will use the clock to a maximum.
It's all part of the game.

Comment by Wiseguy78 - 21/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 21 Aug 2009 17:53

I agree with JaneRed here. In any case I always feel that rather than sitting waiting for the axe the only way to make money is to gamble, and the only way to do that is to see as many hands as possible. Delaying before a raise or breaking the rhythm of an aggressive raiser are respectable enough because they are active strategies but that is not the same as waiting til the last moment to fold on consecutive hands. It's boring, unskilled and ultimately not in your interests. DON'T DO IT!

Comment by shatsi123 - 20/08/09 (Report)

A good player should be able to out-play a stalling player both at and off the table so that it makes no difference to their strategy and success.

A good player should also be able to play good poker without the need of using a stalling tactic in their repertoire and use the Time Bank as an added Bonus feature for extra think time....

Comment by ceemsc - 20/08/09 (Report)

I think its all to do with the reason as to why you are playing. Is it for fun or money?

If its for fun then there is no real need, if its for money then anything that will give you an edge is a plus.

Comment by luxorlad - 20/08/09 (Report)

+1

Comment by LAZBOY - 20/08/09 (Report)

Firstly everyone needs to understand that using the time bank in any way you want is not against the rules.

It may be against the "spirit" of the game but so are many other things.

sometimes if a player is running over a table with constant raises slowing down the game is a way to put them off their rhythm and/or give you time to regroup.

sometimes using the time bank will put a player on tilt thus allowing you to take the money with more ease.

Taking time to think about a call when you are really doing a "hollywood" is a perfectly acceptable tactic both online and in real life.

In short if someone is using the time bank for a REASON other than just using it to be annoying then I don't have a problem with it.

If my game is ruined by someone using time bank then it is my problem not theirs

Comment by lemlin67 - 20/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 20 Aug 2009 03:35

ååååhhh.......

Comment by komabulle - 20/08/09 (Report)

I think a little bit of stalling is fine, we all do it to hide the fact we have a dog of a hand and we're stealing, people ask how much you got? With no intention of actually calling or raising. We do it to in satellites to burst bubble elsewhere with above average stacks, even in SnGs if the blind is coming around to short stack in a few seconds etc.

If I think it is particular bad then I call TD or if online SnG just make sure don't play same opponent again, if can avoid.

I think I've only complained once in a sat to Sunday Million, when someone was running down the clock about 300 out from the bubble, which was just plain silly. Of course, site support (on PS) did zero. However, it was an utter abuse of the timeout function.

Comment by Numero37 - 19/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 19 Aug 2009 22:31

Online poker gives you very little to work with and stalling is essential to building character and standing in a hand. Good luck to all the mugs who speed play without thinking they are'nt being read. It really is luck... or more underhand tactics by which you're winning.

Comment by skylarkin - 19/08/09 (Report)

Stalling is an awful practice, lacking basic etiquette or respect for other peoples time. I dont know how you even post an article like that. taking a minute to check the BB -for example- is IMHO a disgraceful conduct.

Stalling is just another of the stupid stuff idiot and mediocre players do... just like those donks who go all in first hand to double or triple up and sit out for the whole SNG hoping to get to the bubble or even past the bubble.

Come on PKR... article about stallin? oh my... hope this doesnt encourage players...

I recall Sklansky´s advice to "keep the game fast" to get more action than average and keep your table happy and playful... stallin is the mark of a true idiot, sorry.. TIME IS MONEY people...

shame on you... since when is stalling considered STRATEGY? /boo

Comment by JaneRed - 19/08/09 (Report)

Edited on: 19 Aug 2009 20:15

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